[Sun] 20 Oct 2013 (Combined Arms)

How we died
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Tigershark
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Re: [Sun] 20 Oct 2013 (Combined Arms)

Post by Tigershark »

audiox wrote:On the mission as a whole. I CO'd this last time we played, so it was quite interesting to sit back and see what TigerShark came up with. Of course, i'll never know since he keeps his briefings secret, but i can't be bothered to do more than to be snarky about that any longer.
a) Secret? No. Focused and as efficient as possible given the large player count? Probably.
b) I don't do this every mission...only on ones that I feel warrant it. On a co-op of this size and combined ops I thought would benefit from it. You can disagree with my style if you want....just don't be a dick about it.
c) You weren't able to make an educated guess about the plan from map markers, SL orders and unit icons moving around the map?
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dancemoox
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Re: [Sun] 20 Oct 2013 (Combined Arms)

Post by dancemoox »

audiox wrote:The bad things :
As FIA CO you're basically told to hunker down in one building. The extent of tactical options are limited to perhaps sending a fireteam out south to the houses there. Other than that what you have to deal with is open ground, lots of it. Which means that this ends up as an exercise in "send individial soldiers here and there". (Which i'd like to try again, but wasn't wholly prepared for.)
So basically, we get to sit tight. Perhaps send our MG's up on the roof, and wait to be GP'd to kingdom come. Then whomever of us aren't taken out by long range GP get to play chaotic close quarters combat.
Also, no mission failure if the hostages die?
So basically, the indoors environment is, if i remember correctly: (Large, open first floor (suicide), staircase room (yum, grenade), then two rooms in the second floor (eat GP death like a man, comrade.)) * 2 . That does not really open for much ambiguity as to the location of FIA, and means that the mission feels very, very locked down from the get go.

What this mission really needs is at least mission failure on death of hostages. Preferably mission loss, depending on who shot the hostages.
You asked me on Sunday if you had to remain within the indicated AO, I told you no but recommended due to the large enemy force you were facing to stick within. The AO is quite large and doesn't just include the terminal building, but outbuildings, wrecks and the control tower. How you deploy your troops is up to you, I highly recommend treating the hostages quickly as they are badly wounded and will hold up any troops you assign to guard them, furthermore the FIA briefing makes it clear they are badly wounded and that you are to 'interrogate them' for useful information. Only killing them when things potentially turn nasty or perhaps as negotiations break down.

I will not alter the mission to make Dodo crew death an automatic mission end, if it were a real rescue AAF and FIA would not just stop killing each other and pack up for an early night. AAF have clear mission goals, 1) the recovery and treatment of the downed crew, 2) the destruction of the helicopter and 3) pushing FIA forces away from the Terminal. FIA has two, 1) capture and hold the pilots preventing quick AAF victory and 2) Stop AAF from destroying the downed heli and 3) kill as many AAF as they can.
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Aqarius
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Re: [Sun] 20 Oct 2013 (Combined Arms)

Post by Aqarius »

audiox wrote: :jihad: Bravo 2 was on a roll. First Stoner disappears because he mistook B2 Engineer for Engineer team. Then InverseLaw decides to take a nap in a T34. Then Aquarius? decides to join BSL's fireteam on a whim. So there i am, the entirety of B2. Whereafter i'm told to join the engineer team. Where i discover that two other members of B2 are already present. :psypop:
In my defence, the B2 map marker was busted anyway, and BSL's phrasing was somewhere along the lines of :"you two from B2 come join me". I took it a bit too literally :v: And Stoner does deserve leniency, as, after all, the call of engineering duty proved irresistible even for the best of us.
Other than that, I'm amazed at the low level of casualties suffered by the team. Maybe there is something in the 6-man engie squad stuff.
[/allegedly]

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fer
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Re: [Sun] 20 Oct 2013 (Combined Arms)

Post by fer »

Aqarius wrote:In my defence, the B2 map marker was busted anyway, and BSL's phrasing was somewhere along the lines of :"you two from B2 come join me". I took it a bit too literally :v:
I was BSL, and I did give that order - and when I realised I had prematurely disbanded B2 it was too late to reconstitute it (because, IIRC, our actions don't allow the [re-]creation of groups). In the end it wasn't a problem because the NEW Bravo 2 (Engineers) was perfectly effective and helped Bravo maintain its formation.

Until we entered the city in a mad thunder run, Bravo fared pretty well as regards casualties. Teams and vehicles generally did a nice job of covering each other, and the vehicles made good use of cover and dead ground. Although the complexity of our overall formation (3 FTs, 4 vehicles, engineers and my SL element) made co-ordination a little complicated/slow at times, I thought our movement was okay overall. I'd much rather take an extra 15 mins to reach town with 90%+ of my troops alive, than zerg rush and lose 50% in the opening 10 minutes.

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audiox
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Re: [Sun] 20 Oct 2013 (Combined Arms)

Post by audiox »

dancemoox : my medic said he couldn't treat the hostages, so i stopped thinking about that.

fer : Sorry for calling it Dismount and Slog, that was over the top. Its a valid and useful way of doing things. But it seems that is the only way we ever approach these missions. Are there other ways to approach it or are we all equally stumped there?

tiger :
A: Secret as in "only SL's & attachments get to listen in".
That you find it efficient does not make it less secretive in that regard. (We've already had this conversation a while ago.)
B: I'm not saying that you should immediately stop doing it like that, just that i don't like it. Now if giving feedback about that is enough to warrant the accusation of being a dick then hey-ho, let's go, i'm four days into nicotine withdrawals and generally grumpy. :argh:
C: Knowing is a seperate thing from guessing. Yes, i could make an educated guess, but i'll never know how you presented it, and what you wanted to happen when. (Unless you write an AAR that is!)

aquarius : No worries, it was rather amusing.

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Issus
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Re: [Sun] 20 Oct 2013 (Combined Arms)

Post by Issus »

audiox wrote:dancemoox : my medic said he couldn't treat the hostages, so i stopped thinking about that.
It's true. I tried on both hostages but got no action menu option to heal. There was some talk afterwards about people dropping first aid kits so the hostages could heal themselves, but as I only had one in my inventory, I figured I was meant to keep hold of it to use on my squad. The decision as to whether other squad members gave up their own kits was someone else's I guess.

Aqarius
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Re: [Sun] 20 Oct 2013 (Combined Arms)

Post by Aqarius »

RE: groups, joining prompt only appears on a group leader. If we'd blown Inverselaw up, audiox would've probably became FTL and I'd join @him. With the lead in limbo, however, leaving B2 was a one-way deal.
[/allegedly]

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Bodge
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Re: [Sun] 20 Oct 2013 (Combined Arms)

Post by Bodge »

audiox wrote:dancemoox : my medic said he couldn't treat the hostages, so i stopped thinking about that.

fer : Sorry for calling it Dismount and Slog, that was over the top. Its a valid and useful way of doing things. But it seems that is the only way we ever approach these missions. Are there other ways to approach it or are we all equally stumped there?
I think that sometimes (dunno if in this instance was the case as i wasn't there) the terrain isn't really used to advantage, a small rise or dip or bit of foliage/wall can sometimes make all the difference and is normally on the map.

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dancemoox
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Re: [Sun] 20 Oct 2013 (Combined Arms)

Post by dancemoox »

Issus wrote:
audiox wrote:dancemoox : my medic said he couldn't treat the hostages, so i stopped thinking about that.
It's true. I tried on both hostages but got no action menu option to heal. There was some talk afterwards about people dropping first aid kits so the hostages could heal themselves, but as I only had one in my inventory, I figured I was meant to keep hold of it to use on my squad. The decision as to whether other squad members gave up their own kits was someone else's I guess.
You can grab spare first aid kits from the downed heli, briefing tells you to check it for 'anything useful'.
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Ferrard Carson
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Re: [Sun] 20 Oct 2013 (Combined Arms)

Post by Ferrard Carson »

Farm Raid
Deployed as DefendFor Alpha 2 rifledude
My return to the world of ArmA after a short little absence began with a whimper and several close-range bangs not from my rifle. As a lowly rifleman, I settled in prone on a nice hilltop perch to the east of our warehouses while the commander shuffled people around. To my side, the famed Frictionless T-34 lazily turned over on the spit, but someone had forgotten to set the fire, so our tank barbeque was not going very well. Too late now, because Alpha 3 is getting engaged over to the Southwest!

A flurry of knee-jerk reactions seemed to indicate a desire to concentrate all of us on one side, except we in Alpha 2 could clearly see some Bad Dudes displacing laterally. Our FTL obeyed the eventual instructions to withdraw, and got mowed down for his exuberance along with our AR. Turns out, those laterally displacing enemies were doing so directly onto our flank exactly as suspected. In temporary (quickly turning permanent) control of the fire-team, I sat us down to wait for close contact. Unfortunately, I tunnel-visioned into where I'd last seen an enemy and another snuck up behind me and filled me with lead. :bang:

UNder Pressure
Deployed as Alpha Squad Leader
Once more into the breech, boys! The mine-filled mine-field'd breech! It's not so much a breech as a "kill-zone" if you really want to be pedantic about it.

We spawned in and engaged in a mad dash for the first set of inhabited buildings. Turns out, they were abandoned, but they served as perfectly good set-up points for the two MMG teams attached to Alpha to provide overwatch and rock anyone who poked their heads out of our first objective some 400 meters away.

Alpha bounded rapidly through the intervening field, taking no fire, and losing only one person to enemy fire as we took a multi-layered compound. It was oriented towards Bravo's line of advance, with heavy machine-guns and a few RPG dudes, but we came from behind and reamed them until they suffered their little deaths (as well as full death... eventually).

Brave Tigershark then ordered us to tactically advance in a retrograde manner and redeploy on a hill to the south - Alpha's fire-teams and machine-gunners responded promptly, though once we were in position, some FTLs had to be talked onto the correct target multiple times.

Then Brave Tigershark encountered a lost insurgent behind the hill, and must've decided that headbutting him was the best course o' action! The strike was excellent, but me and my most responsive and trusty FTL ran a third of the squad north, murderized the insurgent for daring to sully our Brave Tigershark's noggin with blood, and patted Tiger on the belly until he mauled one of us, thus proving that he was once more able and willing to marshal us onward--

Into .50 cal fire. That only hit Tiger. And some MMG dude, but who remembers them anyways? :fry:

Thoroughly uncreative bounding carried the day as we moved from hamlet to hamlet, murdering all the local inhabitants in the name of Peace, Love, and Land-mine Free countryside. Finally, the mosque blew itself into subatomic particles, and in a mad dash to gather any survivors, I charged Alpha straight into a meat-grinder that obliterated the lot of us. From the afterlife, I watched the remaining three or four souls from Alpha mill about in a fair amount of aimless confusion whilst Bravo, still in possession of a non-endeadened leader, Thunder-Run'd their way into the city, discovering that the documents we were interested in had been similarly blown into subatomic particles.

Someone shouted it to the insurgents, who promptly forgot what the heck we were all fighting about. Remembering our manners, we asked politely whether we could take a load off, and the locals, ever gentlemen and ladies, invited us into their parlors to smoke hookah, imbibe herbal tea, and murder absolutely everyone in Zargabad. In the name of Peace, Love, and Land-mines. We'll be setting them this time, though, so it's all okay!



P.S.: This mission is beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. Love the sense of urgency, love the flavor messages, love the detail put into such a large AO. Also, the FrameRate nomming Mosque was hilarious in the utter overkill involved in its molecularization :laugh:

Downed Bird
Deployed as DefendFor Alpha 2 FTL
I may have slightly ignored my directive of "Keep all your guys on the wide-open first floor that isn't so much walled-in as windowed-in (the better to watch you bathe your hostage, my dear)," and I may have gotten all my dudes onto the roof of the building, and I may have mis-judged the direction the enemy was coming from, and I may have gotten blown up by a perfectly lobbed hand grenade for my troubles... Maybe.

Hillside View
Deployed as Alpha 1 FTL
Ah, the great, shrinking Alpha 1! Turns out, when you're on the extreme flank of an incredibly wide-spread squad, you tend to get picked off one-by-one from areas that you can't effectively cover with only four dudes. We died very, very, very quickly. I'm so not used to ArmA 3's pacing and spotting.

:clint: ~ Ferrard
"Take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turnin' of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurtin' before she keels... makes her home."

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