[Sun] 20 March 2011 (LDDK 10th Anniversary)

How we died
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fer
Posts: 1586
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:16 am
Location: Emotional wreck

[Sun] 20 March 2011 (LDDK 10th Anniversary)

Post by fer »

Missions:
  • Cinderella
  • Operation Bagration
  • Cacheola (adversarial)
Thank you to LDDK for the invitation, and to MARSOC for joining us on this one.

I think it's worth stating upfront that compared to the last joint session with LDDK and MARSOC, this evening was challenging and sometimes a little frustrating. Thank you to all guests for being patient, especially when we had to re-slot. It would be good to get feedback and suggestions, but please try and make your posts constructive. Many of (if not all) the things that didn't quite work can likely be addressed, but that relies on specific suggestions and ideas from guests. Lastly, be advised that key members of LDDK and MARSOC can read this thread (and entire forum).

BTW, in Operation Bagration I was totally the first man to die.

:siiigh:

User avatar
fer
Posts: 1586
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:16 am
Location: Emotional wreck

Re: [Sun] 20 March 2011 (LDDK 10th Anniversary)

Post by fer »

Update: With permission from Broileri, I'm going to reproduce some of the email conversation he and I had after the event. The bottom line here is that we all recognise that there were some issues, and we're very keen to resolve them. For any guests who found the session frustrating, what I hope you'll take from this email exchange is confidence that we can, with some tweaks, create a joint session that is epic.

From me to Broileri, with his previous email to me embedded:
Hi Broi,

Thanks for the email. I'm also determined that we can learn from the
snafus and work towards another session. Some responses in-line below:

> > We customarily play each mission both ways. The attacking team gets to
> > defend in the next round and vice versa. This way there can be no talk about
> > unbalanced missions, since if the other side has a slightly upper hand,
> > those players will be in the receiving end during the next round. I'm
> > referring to someone's comment after Kuokkanen's (now notorious, I guess)
> > mission about "how unbalanced can a mission be", in case that was a popular
> > opinion.

That comment came from one of the freelancers, and IIRC it was the same
guy who I ended up having to shout at later on. He brought entirely the
wrong attitude to the event.

Balance is a tricky thing, but the Folk (and I think also MARSOC)
players understand that it's not about things being completely symmetrical.

> > We would have swapped teams tonight after each round in every mission, but
> > you wished a new mission every time instead, so we obliged. (Of course, that
> > might not have made things better in Kuokkanen's mission. We ourselves had a
> > lot of trouble organising the assault on the village with seven teams, two
> > of which lead be unknown freelancers, and having to rely on simple map
> > markers and spoken communication.)

A hard truth that I think Folk/MARSOC will have to swallow is that our
plan in that mission was bad. We didn't push out to the treelines, and
we got sucked into thinking the armour assets would be useful. Our
issues with situational awareness and communications made it worse, but
the plan itself meant that we were unlikely to win. I'm going to have to
tell our players that in the AAR thread ;)

The reason I asked for us to play Cacheola next was that I guessed (half
correctly, as it turned out), that a return to something a bit more
familiar would settle some of the players on the Folk/MARSOC side. Plus,
we had had such a good time playing it against LDDK last time, I hoped
it would be a safe bet.

> > What comes to the other things - mainly the defenders' Bradley in Cinderella
> > (the laser designator thing in Cacheola was sadly forgotten, as said) - I
> > would still like to emphasize the mission makers' power to make it
> > unnecessary to enforce any additional rules or even make gentlemen's
> > agreements as to what tactics are chosen and how missions are played (but
> > needless to say, we will honor any such agreement made). For instance, if
> > the Bradley isn't meant to be taken far from the base, you can limit its
> > fuel. If you want the attackers' base to be safe from the defenders'
> > harassment, you can put it farther away.

On both counts you're right, and we'll likely work to patch both
missions for any future use.

> > Myself, I rather enjoy the feeling of urgency when you know that the enemies
> > can attempt anything in their imagination the moment the game starts. Of
> > course, I still see your point, and no one likes to get killed the first
> > minutes into the game.

The funny thing was that you were very aggressive in both Cinderella and
Cacheola, but nobody minded at all when you ambushed our Hummers in
Cacheola. It was a great experience (although I was left hiding in a
bush due to a lack of seats in our remaining vehicles!).

The difference in Cinderella was that we had not even mounted our
vehicles and got underway. TBH, the lack of tags/STHUD meant most people
were running around trying to identify their team-mates and the correct
vehicles to mount. Because we came under fire at this precise moment, it
felt like spawn-killing. We're going to investigate ways of tweaking
that mission so that becomes less of a possibility.

> > Anyway, I think the simplest way to fix these things for our next session is
> > that you select the mission or the missions and also tell us in advance if
> > you think there is anything or any tactic in those missions to specifically
> > avoid. On my part, I now know better about how you feel about e.g.
> > unprovoked Bradley attacks by the defender. :)

I'd like to go one better, and work *with* your mission makers on 1-2
collaborations, rather than attempt to impose stuff on you.

> > Again, thanks for the company. I am sorry about the snafus and bad luck, and
> > hopefully it wasn't so negative an experience that we can't overcome it. All
> > I said in the last post still stands.

And for my part, again, thanks for the invitation. Whilst it was
frustrating at times, I would like to work through the issues. I think our
respective communities have more in common than differences, and I
really enjoy gaming with you guys!

Best wishes,

Fer :)
From Broileri to me, in response:
Hi Fer,

Thanks for the quick reply. Just a few more comments to your comments.

> > That comment came from one of the freelancers, and IIRC it was the same
> > guy who I ended up having to shout at later on. He brought entirely the
> > wrong attitude to the event.

Ok, that's good to know. Agreed.

> > The reason I asked for us to play Cacheola next was that I guessed (half
> > correctly, as it turned out), that a return to something a bit more
> > familiar would settle some of the players on the Folk/MARSOC side. Plus,
> > we had had such a good time playing it against LDDK last time, I hoped
> > it would be a safe bet.

I think I guessed as much, although I didn't appreciate how impatient some
players must have been starting to get.

Too bad then about the bloody laser designator. I checked, and the guy
happily using it didn't play on our last match in December (doing his
military service, from all the excuses), so he hadn't been told about it
even then. His buddy should have remembered, though. But then, so should I.

> > The difference in Cinderella was that we had not even mounted our
> > vehicles and got underway. TBH, the lack of tags/STHUD meant most people
> > were running around trying to identify their team-mates and the correct
> > vehicles to mount. Because we came under fire at this precise moment, it
> > felt like spawn-killing.

Understood, I'm sorry about how that played out. I can imagine it would have
been pretty much the perfect storm of frustration. If you had been vocal
about it immediately, we would have restarted the mission, of course.

> > I'd like to go one better, and work *with* your mission makers on 1-2
> > collaborations, rather than attempt to impose stuff on you.

Imposing is just fine - your missions are that good - but that doesn't sound
bad, either. :)

Later,
Broi

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