The CAS discussion. Mission-maker edition

[Macaco]

I think the altering weapon loadouts is a great idea. Full cannons and 4 or 6 GBUs would be a great limiter on the fixed wing. Though the A-10 is the only one with a cannon that can do much damage to armor. The rest could decrew a a bmp2 or something though

For marking, I like the idea of only attacking marked targets. JTAC with a 203 loaded up with red smokes. I'm not sure I like the idea of everyone having smokes as they may throw them on accident and I think only jtac should have the power to call in the strikes as that is his job. For night targets you are all forgetting the IR laser. That is a wonderful marking tool.

Speaking of the JTAC, if we have the player counts for it I think a JTAC and JTAC assistant would be great, or even better a proper tacp with 4 men. But as I said that depends on how many bodies we have. That would make the JTAC more survivable when moving on their own, and it would help spot/locate targets. And a lot of this depends on jtacs knowing what they are doing.

Any AA threats I think would be best to stick to ZU as SAMs and shilkas might be a bit too deadly. Only time I'd say for sams is as a delay; have them near the front like so that inf can take them out. A couple RAT to a tunguska and now you've unlocked your air support!

[Black Mamba]

Well, the issue with having only the JTAC with marking capabilty, is the JTAC can't be everywhere. If bravo requests a strike on the left flank, and then Charlie on the right flank, We might run into issues. Having the squad lead call for the JTAC (something along the lines of Bravo needs air support, BMP2, marked with red smoke, 50 meters to the north), and the JTAC actually dealing with it and prioritizing stuff seems okay. Then again, it's just speculation. It also prevents the CAS pilot to run out of a mission if the JTAC dies (but your idea of an assistant does that as well. I'm not really sure how fun being assistant JTAC would be, though). I'd keep the JTAC within the HQ element.

SAMs are quite easy to defeat when you have a working alarm system actually (note that for a lot of aircrafts, those are broken since 1.57). Even in a chopper. Spamming them will obviously result in a very short life span for the aircraft, but a few here and there are enough to keep the pressure. Just try it in the editor.
By the way, shilkas and ZSU result in exactly the same when manned by AI. Tunguskas are not very forgiving. You can't dodge a tunguska. At least not twice. And they have a freaking big ass range of engagement.

[Macaco]

You make a good point with smokes. But a normal smoke could work just as well and everyone already has those. JTAC is a tough job so I think an assistant that has more smokes and can spot and help protect and stuff would help a lot on his job. I see it less as an asistant and more as two jtacs working together, they could take turns calling in strikes so one is figuring out his next call for fire while the other is doing his call

Most of the cas jets don't have a working missile warning system, so for now a SAM is almost instant death. If that was changed I'd be fine with SAMs.

Shilkas and ZUs are not exactly the same. Shilka is mobile, armoured, and has 4 barrels. A ZU is static (or in the back of a ural), unarmoured, has only two barrels, and can be taken out with a shot or two to the gunner, where a shilka will need a couple AT rockets. That's why I was saying Shilka and Tunguska as a delay and ZU as a normal thing so that the aircraft can't loiter over the spot for very long.

[Black Mamba]

AFAIK this should be fixed in 1.63, as well as missiles speed.

[thekev506]

Popped back to see how things with FA are going (missing the sessions very much) and I thought I'd share a mission that I think would suit CAS support very well. Problem is I haven't played ARMA properly since December now, and I can't remember the mission name. It's a co-op on the Zargabad map where we cross the river and take on the UN and blow up weapon caches - we're Takis.

I realise that with 80% of the map under enemy control using fixed-wing is out of the question, but the map is a good example of a situation where a fixed wing CAS (with the cannon/GBU setup to limit its power) would be really worthwhile and add to the mission:
- Typically engaging outside of effective small arms range early in the mission
- Lots of armoured and static targets with a much greater effective range than the infantry
- Easily recognised landmark in the form of a river separating the two forces

This is the kind of scenario where I'd envisage CAS being worthwhile. As infantry we can put down small arms fire and try to engage the armour with RPG's, and quite a few times we laboured through it. It's possible to push through it, but with heavy losses. Having a CAS asset would mean a CO would have a way to take the heat off a squad getting diced by a BMP whilst not completely ruining the balance of the mission - there's still an awful lot going on, too much for one plane to deal with.

[wolfenswan]

I think you're talking about UNnecessary violence. I think I considered using CAS while working on the mission but eventually dropped it as I figured that CAS doesn't do anything Infantry can't do with more style (and dying).

Plus, as Zargabad is a small map having fixed wing circling the AO would make the AI go haywire and all the triggers/scripting would have to be adjusted to make sure a stray plane doesn't trigger stuff only ground-bound players should activate. (Which btw. is something that should also be kept in mind when creating a mission using CAS)

[Ferrard Carson]

Plus, as Zargabad is a small map having fixed wing circling the AO would make the AI go haywire and all the triggers/scripting would have to be adjusted to make sure a stray plane doesn't trigger stuff only ground-bound players should activate. (Which btw. is something that should also be kept in mind when creating a mission using CAS)

Oh god yes; the fact that triggers don't distinguish between ground-bound troops and airplanes is so frustrating when trying to make a mission interesting.

DePBO Running Rabbit and spawn a flight of A-10's flying down the valley. It's absolute chaos when all the triggers fire at once instead of the gradual progression that's supposed to happen.

~ Ferrard

[thekev506]

Plus, as Zargabad is a small map having fixed wing circling the AO would make the AI go haywire and all the triggers/scripting would have to be adjusted to make sure a stray plane doesn't trigger stuff only ground-bound players should activate. (Which btw. is something that should also be kept in mind when creating a mission using CAS)

Absolutely, I probaby didn't explain what I meant very well, but that mission, to me, has the elements that CAS support would work with nicely, rather than 'this mission needs CAS!'

[Macaco]

So that's another thing to keep in mind when putting cas in a mission, trigger use with regards to where the CAS flies over. I can see that being fixed (with luck) by adding a couple seconds to the timer. A jet will fly right through, but ground men won't be moving as fast. However it will still cause AI to go haywire unless a trigger is added to keep them docile until Inf gets there, with an agreement that pilots don't engage anything past where Inf are currently fighting.

Also with regard to Zargrabad it brought up a thought, Zargrabad (and some other maps) only have the one airfield, so assaulting toward it will be problematic, as it would be taking off from behind enemy lines. You could start him in the air (he may crash before he loads in) or find another suitably flat open area to use as an improvised landing area (makes take off and landing a much more dangerous affair, so rearm and refuel become harder). You could also make the pilot and jet part of the mission. Need to save him and the jet from the enemy at the airport, then he takes off and provides cover for the assault on whatever is next.

[wolfenswan]

You can add a check in the trigger to make sure that at least one unit in thislist is > x m above ground or simply exclude the pilot unit from the trigger (otherwise a crash landed but surviving pilot would still cause a trigger to fire).