CAS/FAC Discussion

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Draakon
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Re: CAS/FAC Discussion

Post by Draakon »

Kefirz wrote:If you go over 700 in arma you can just out-run the rocket and you will be golden, so a diving A-10, dropping GBU's like a madman could go over any AO, but it needs a JTAC with a laser designator.
IMO (and this is usually a tactic I use) is to divebomb. Go about 1km (minium in my case) up in the sky, fly towards the AO, about 400-100m away from the target, point your nose towards the target, let the ordinance fly and then pull up again, while popping flares. This has couple of benefits:
1) You are more likely hitting the target towards it's top area, ensuing best possible penetration and damage.
2) Going with above reason, there's less cover for the target against your guns. Although going along a recommended line of approach (from the JTAC) is also recommended, both not to hit friendlies and probably the line of approach has less cover towards that approach.
3) Subjective matter, but I find it easier to dodge gunfire when I am higher in sky. Plus, enemy fire seems to be more inaccurate as higher as you go.
4) Going with above reason, you can using your approach from the sky, go hog the ground after dropping your ordinance. Not only will you get faster out of the AO when doing this, the ground should provide some natural cover against AA missiles and gunfire.
5) There would be less change to cock up and crash your plane if you give yourself plenty of distance between the plane and ground, because you are giving yourself more time before having to pull up or staying on target longer.

Macaco
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Re: CAS/FAC Discussion

Post by Macaco »

CAS thread is one of the most active and most replied to threads in the forums. I think that says something about the desire to use it more often, if nothing else.

zitron
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Re: CAS/FAC Discussion

Post by zitron »

Macaco wrote:CAS thread is one of the most active and most replied to threads in the forums. I think that says something about the desire to use it more often, if nothing else.

The People demand toys, and we want it NOW! It is time to give people what they want, unless you want to be up against the wall when the revolution comes! Power to the people!

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wolfenswan
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Re: CAS/FAC Discussion

Post by wolfenswan »

Macaco wrote:CAS thread is one of the most active and most replied to threads in the forums. I think that says something about the desire to use it more often, if nothing else.
It also says that we need more people creating missions, especially people that have an interest in a mission that includes but does not revolve around CAS, i.e. not turning the mission into a boring drag for the other 59 players. I'm not that person so you'll hardly ever see player controlled CAS in my missions, sorry.
The People demand toys, and we want it NOW! It is time to give people what they want, unless you want to be up against the wall when the revolution comes! Power to the people!
As said, the people have all the tools they need.

Macaco
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Re: CAS/FAC Discussion

Post by Macaco »

wolfenswan wrote:It also says that we need more people creating missions, especially people that have an interest in a mission that includes but does not revolve around CAS, i.e. not turning the mission into a boring drag for the other 59 players.
Having fiddled with missions, a new mission maker isn't gonna be able to balance it well. Also if you just stick with the "CAS only comes in when it's called in" then it's not boring for the other 59 players unless they want it to be.

zitron
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Re: CAS/FAC Discussion

Post by zitron »

wolfenswan wrote:
Macaco wrote:CAS thread is one of the most active and most replied to threads in the forums. I think that says something about the desire to use it more often, if nothing else.
It also says that we need more people creating missions, especially people that have an interest in a mission that includes but does not revolve around CAS, i.e. not turning the mission into a boring drag for the other 59 players. I'm not that person so you'll hardly ever see player controlled CAS in my missions, sorry.
The People demand toys, and we want it NOW! It is time to give people what they want, unless you want to be up against the wall when the revolution comes! Power to the people!
As said, the people have all the tools they need.
OK that's it. I've had it. I'm going to start making missions. You have no idea what is about to happen :argh:

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fer
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Re: CAS/FAC Discussion

Post by fer »

Really interesting thread, to which I've been meaning to contribute for days. Damn you, work and the bodily requirement for sleep. And you too, W:EE.

Making CAS part of a mission
Incorporating CAS in a mission that's suited to FA's Tuesday/Sunday rotation is challenging, but not impossible. If you are new to mission making, I recommend that you avoid using CAS until you've successfully created some simpler missions, but if you're up to the challenge I'd suggest keeping these principles in mind:
  1. The infantry platoon should be able to complete the mission even if the CAS asset(s) is destroyed early on (or not used).
  2. The infantry platoon should not have to stand idle for long periods whilst the CAS asset(s) performs its mission (although the reverse is acceptable).
  3. The CAS asset(s) should not be employed to accomplish tasks best suited to infantry (e.g. clearing enemy troops from civilian structures, settlements).
  4. The CAS asset(s) should not be able to able to operate with impunity - some AA threat must be present.
  5. View distances for pilot roles should be set higher than infantry (use the Dynamic View Distance component in F2).
Of the missions I've made with CAS (for OFP, ArmA and ArmA 2), I can only say I've been really happy with one: Arrival SE. In that mission the FA platoon is supported by a player-crewed Apache. Here's how that mission addresses the above principles:
  1. The Apache makes dealing with enemy tanks easier, but the platoon has enough man-portable AT to do the job if necessary - it'll just take longer.
  2. The platoon is not dependent upon the Apache completing its missions - it has plenty of EI to deal with independently.
  3. Special ROE (hello comrade x25killa!) prevent the Apache from engaging targets in settlements - so it'll always be our ground-pounders going house-to-house.
  4. The AO contains a handful of enemy MANPADs, ensuring that a stationary Apache quickly becomes a falling / exploding Apache.
  5. The view distance isn't set specially, but the AO is pretty small and this is less of a problem for this slower-moving, rotary-wing asset.
I'm not suggesting that the above principles, or how I have chosen to address them in Arrival SE, are guaranteed to make CAS a successful component of a mission, but hope they will serve to illustrate that this is a topic that merits plenty of careful consideration by mission makers.

Tests for CAS pilots
Common sense, consideration and courtesy, rather than competence, have always characterised the players in FA sessions (and those of its antecedents, ARPS and Folk). I, and I believe all hosts, try very hard to ensure everyone has the opportunity to take on any role in our missions. Moreover, we've always striven to avoid the ranks, badges and similar accoutrements of the 'number' communities (MilSim). Creating a cadre of HS/LD pilot types within FA risks the kind of elitism and tribalism that some of us ArmAverse veterans have sought to escape. When I'm hosting a session, I like to see fresh faces taking on the challenge of piloting (and any form of leadership, for that matter), and openness remains paramount. By the same token, if you know yourself to be strongly attracted to mountainsides, please exercise common sense and avoid that Mi-8 pilot slot.

Training FACs
This is a fair point - we have certainly seen real benefits from the advent of the workshops, so if comrades Tigershark and Carson can work up a training opportunity I'm sure that would help. However, I'd also suggest that in terms of prioritisation, this topic lags behind our need to make more comrades comfortable taking CO and SL roles. Again, I'd love it if the slots people are jumping the gun for are element leadership ones as well as the toys.

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fer
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Re: CAS/FAC Discussion

Post by fer »

This discussion continues here, comrades.

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