CAS/FAC Discussion

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Macaco
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Re: Lessons on Preventing Party Disunity

Post by Macaco »

Black Mamba wrote:--buff the littlebird up a bit so it can do a decent Air support job--
A decent pilot can fly cas with a littlebird without dying if they know when to fly in for strafing and when to stand off and fire from a distance, and if they had a repair truck at the base. Granted there is still the unlucky "getting sniped out of the pilot seat" situation but that happens even in an A10 if you are unlucky enough ( I have been...)

This is probably getting into off topic here but I'm more interested in seeing little birds with skids for those trickier/cooler looking insertions. The first time I flied for folk was on the mission where you have to get the hostages to the russian bases in cherno, and I was in charge of picking up/dropping off Bravo as they moved around the maps checking out different camps, that type of helo use leads to some really fun game play and to me is more fun than "Alpha AT flies, then ditches the chopper because we won't need it."

Black Mamba
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Re: Lessons on Preventing Party Disunity

Post by Black Mamba »

Macaco wrote:
Black Mamba wrote:--buff the littlebird up a bit so it can do a decent Air support job--
A decent pilot can fly cas with a littlebird without dying if they know when to fly in for strafing and when to stand off and fire from a distance, and if they had a repair truck at the base. Granted there is still the unlucky "getting sniped out of the pilot seat" situation but that happens even in an A10 if you are unlucky enough ( I have been...)
Not the point. A decent pilot still has a 7,62mm minigun, doesn't he? Try and shoot a vehicle with that.

Macaco
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Re: Lessons on Preventing Party Disunity

Post by Macaco »

Black Mamba wrote:
Macaco wrote:
Black Mamba wrote:--buff the littlebird up a bit so it can do a decent Air support job--
A decent pilot can fly cas with a littlebird without dying if they know when to fly in for strafing and when to stand off and fire from a distance, and if they had a repair truck at the base. Granted there is still the unlucky "getting sniped out of the pilot seat" situation but that happens even in an A10 if you are unlucky enough ( I have been...)
Not the point. A decent pilot still has a 7,62mm minigun, doesn't he? Try and shoot a vehicle with that.
Just hopped in the editor and blew up a T-72 with the minigun in two passes, I'm pretty sure it was useless/would have been decrewed after the first; though you don't call in a littlebird to take out a tank.

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fer
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Re: CAS/FAC Discussion

Post by fer »

I'm splitting this discussion into it's own thread. As a side note, since we have this whole sub-forum to play with, please don't be afraid of starting new topics. Also, let's try to keep it polite in here - text can be an unforgiving medium!

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thekev506
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Re: CAS/FAC Discussion

Post by thekev506 »

fer wrote:I'm splitting this discussion into it's own thread. As a side note, since we have this whole sub-forum to play with, please don't be afraid of starting new topics
So confused for a moment there when I saw I was the 'author' of a thread I had no recollection of.
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Zergra
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Re: CAS/FAC Discussion

Post by Zergra »

I will and will always be in favor of CAS, especially using a10s. I think we have to little ait combat overall

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Ferrard Carson
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Re: CAS/FAC Discussion

Post by Ferrard Carson »

Zergra wrote:I will and will always be in favor of CAS, especially using a10s. I think we have to little ait combat overall
That's 'cuz you haven't seen what happens when a carefully paced and scripted Co-Op has a jet scream overhead raining tracery death down on everything.

From a mission-maker's perspective, it's difficult to include jet-based CAS. It takes a lot of work to get the AI to make a distinction between player airplanes, vehicles, or dudes on foot, meaning that all the careful pacing that goes into a 40-60-person Co-Op goes right out the window the second that an A-10 roars overhead. And while it's hilarious(ly bloody) to have every single arranged "interesting event" happen simultaneously (23mm TRACER FIRE AND TANK SHELLS AND ROCKETS AND HINDS ERERYWHERE!), it does make it 1) extremely lethal extremely quickly for the players, and 2) extremely dull for the survivors, since all the things that are intended to keep things lively have already triggered.

I'm consumed by work, and my mission-making time is dedicated to the next part of the Morning War and workshop stuff, but in the back of my mind, I'm still trying my damnest to include CAS, 'cuz it's awesome to watch. If I can balance it correctly, you may even see CAS in this upcoming adversarial.

~ Ferrard
"Take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turnin' of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurtin' before she keels... makes her home."

Anvilfolk
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Re: CAS/FAC Discussion

Post by Anvilfolk »

That's what I was thinking as I was just going through this thread. There have got to be ways to include it in a way that isn't unbalanced. A ShackTac mission I saw comes to mind.

This was an adversarial mission, and one side was tasked with attacking a city, the other with defending it. One side had CAS. Now, this is a city, so getting accurate runs on anything was hard. You have to line up with streets and/or buildings, and by that time the infantry has gotten to cover. Vehicles are easier to spot and take out.

I could see this working if the side tasked to defend had superiority on land. CAS from the air, with limited ammo, would try to even up the odds. Perhaps there could even be a couple of AA assets for the defenders, which meant a real risk for the A-10 being shot down. Perhaps there could be two A-10s but only one available pilot. If he got shot down but bailed out, getting him back into the fight would be a nice little unscripted side-mission.

Could be fun :)

I also really like the idea of non-engagement in towns. Makes perfect sense. Reminds me of this mine-clearing mission we did for ACE night a while back. There WERE civilians going around everywhere, and there WAS a penalty for killing a real civilian (as opposed to the civilian-looking guerillas that would have hidden side-arms).

I guess the main problem with this is the longer running times for these types of missions.

Black Mamba
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Re: CAS/FAC Discussion

Post by Black Mamba »

Also remember, those Adversarials videos you see on Dslyexci's channel (Or Kilroy's or whoever) are from missions that usually run with more than 80/100 players. Also their sessions run a lot longer than ours.
What is good for them isn't necessarily fo us, and vice-versa.

Although, I'm not against a bit of CAS here and there.

Macaco
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Re: CAS/FAC Discussion

Post by Macaco »

The problem with CAS, as I best heard it described, is getting the CAS pilot and the ground force to be playing the same mission with the same goal, and not just both operating at the same time on the same map.

Also in the limited time I was tinkering with missions, it's near impossible to put ground forces against such a threat that hey NEED to call in cas, without it killing them outright.

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