Folk Workshop feedback

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Anvilfolk
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Folk Workshop feedback

Post by Anvilfolk »

Hi,

I only realised there was a workshop last week, when I couldn't attend. I finally went this week - it was my first time there, and I didn't really know what was going to happen. Here's some feedback from a first experience:

It was clear a lot of people had already done it before, but some of us hadn't. I was very lost at first. Talk of lanes, blue and red members, etc. I was very lost for the first round at the shooting range. The second one was much smoother, but perhaps it might be interesting to ask if anyone has NOT done the routine before executing it. If that is the case, they can probably be explained in under 30m.

Something simple like: "We are divided into fire teams of 4 elements each. There are two fireteams per lane, one on the left, one on the right. In each FT, two elements are RED, two elements are BLUE, assigned by FTLs. We will be doing bounding overwatch, which means RED provides covering fire while BLUE moves forward. Then BLUE covers while RED moves to BLUE's position. Then RED moves while BLUE covers, and so forth. Same thing coming back. The objective is to keep most of the targets down and to avoid creating FF situations in close quarters."

Another idea would be to put out a little guide or video with the routines that should be watched before attending. This would reduce explanation time during limited workshop time.

I felt the intersection part worked very nicely with the asking questions about how and why things are done the way they are. I didn't realise that you were acting out things as you were explaining. Perhaps it might be a good idea to call out attention to that with a "gather up" or "look this way" or something like this. I missed the initial part of the manoeuvre. Perhaps have a couple of volunteers who know what they are doing to demonstrate at the beginning to see it done proper.

Finally, I really enjoyed the commanding part of the workshop (as I did the other parts), but it also felt like it was assumed that people knew what was going to happen. Our first CO was interested in CO'ing (since he volunteered) but seemed at a loss as to what exactly was expected. I eventually volunteered for Bravo SL (with Bravo SL promoted to CO), but also didn't know what to do exactly. Were we drilling the battle plan phase only? Are SLs allowed to put markers down and interrupt with suggestions and/or ideas for the general plan? How about for their own squad (independently of the others)? Perhaps Alpha and Bravo couldn't coordinated their joint attack with bounding overwatch manoeuvres? Or is that too much? And are we supposed to react in real time as events unfold? At one point the CO was shot - someone took over. Should the other SL's order their squads around at this point, say, into a more defensive position before the acting CO has time to figure things out?

Mostly, I was afraid to interrupt and overstep myself, so I just kept quiet.

I hope this elucidates the experience of at least one first-timer in the workshops :)

All the best!

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Kefirz
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Re: Folk Workshop feedback

Post by Kefirz »

I feel responsible for that, because I was your FTL and I assumed that you had done this before so I just went for it and didn't explain anything really, just said ''you and you move now'', and when I saw that you both were set I moved with my buddy team member. Also the intersection part.. probably my fault also when I didn't make it specific and just said let's do this as before and kind of went for it, because sometimes I just have trouble expressing myself in English while not swearing.

So lesson learned: make sure that your FT understands what you want from them.
Also were you the one that couldn't hear or talk? You should check that a bit...
To be honest I think I could have thought you that road crossing maneuver before showing it to Ferrard.

So Ferrard and Tiger maybe a suggestion? Before the workshop (maybe in a whole different day) go trough some points with FTL's and make sure they understand them and in the workshop make those FTL's teach their own fireteams, that way you could get a more individual approach to every member in the workshop to teach him.
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Anvilfolk
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Re: Folk Workshop feedback

Post by Anvilfolk »

Hi Kefirz!

Yeah, I had connection problems. Sorry about that, I'm aware that pretty much screwed some of the training over :( I had never got them before, so I don't know what was up. Perhaps someone was doing some downloads in the house? It's strange, because I think I only had problems with VON, and not with TS.

Regarding having another day for FTL's: I thought the workshops were just drop-in and learn, whether you are going for FTL, SL, or CO. I personally like this format, where you end up training what you want to learn :)

I also don't recall saying it was my first time attending the workshop - so perhaps I didn't, which certainly didn't help you!

Looking forward to more of this :)

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SuperU
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Re: Folk Workshop feedback

Post by SuperU »

Good points! I feel an instructional video series coming!!!

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Ferrard Carson
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Re: Folk Workshop feedback

Post by Ferrard Carson »

Fair points, all. Large portions of the workshop have become largely rote to a lot of people, but I sometimes lose sight of the newer people who would probably appreciate a more detailed runthrough of everything. To be perfectly honest, we the hosts just need to sit down with the map editor and breathe some new life into the workshop courses, something for which I may or may not have time for this week.

Current topics around which we have workshop elements (and which we will refresh):
  • Intra- and Inter-Fireteam Bounding
  • Humvee Transport
  • Helicopter Transport
  • Street Crossing in MOUT
  • Alleyway movement in MOUT
  • Compound Clearing
  • Base-of-Fire / Assault Element coordination
  • Squad Anti-Tank coordination
  • Platoon-level Planning
Additional topics around which we want workshop elements:
  • Reaction to Contact
  • Breaking Contact
  • Convoy Movement
  • Defensive Actions
  • Clearing Buildings
  • Working with Armor support
  • Working with CAS support
  • Engaging at long range (spotting / massed fires)
:clint: ~ Ferrard
"Take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turnin' of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurtin' before she keels... makes her home."

Anvilfolk
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Re: Folk Workshop feedback

Post by Anvilfolk »

Ferrard Carson wrote:...Large portions of the workshop have become largely rote to a lot of people,
Yeah, I figured this was the case :) No worries. No point in repeating the same thing to the same people over and over again. There's got to be a way around that.

Another suggestion: perhaps we could do a little bit of slotting at the beginning, reserving a fire team or a squad for the newbies. That could be run by a volunteer who would explain the procedures. They would do all the manoeuvres more slowly than the rest, but if they are newbies they could skip the COing part at the end.

On a somewhat unrelated note, there are some extremely obvious things (which are so obvious you don't notice them...) that it might be difficult to illustrate in a controlled environment but are still worth saying. I learned one of them the hard way this past Tuesday.

I was Automatic Rifleman for a squad, on the north side of a ridge (for illustration purposes). There was an enemy fireteam about 500-700m away to the north. Engageable, but requiring continuous fire to have any effect. I got the order to lay fire on them. So I did. Which was stupid. If you aren't under immediate thread (they hadn't spotted us or decided to engage), never EVER open fire before securing a hard cover position. I should've gotten up, walked up to the top of the ridge, and have been just peeking off the top of it. That way I could crawl back for safety. Instead, I opened fire from the near side of the ridge, they saw me, started shooting, and they are a ton more accurate than I am at that distance.

Sometimes it's the tiny things like these that need to be reinforced, and it might not be easy to do it in a workshopby. Perhaps the leadership positions need to emphasise them, i.e. by saying "get in hard cover and then open fire", or "get in hard cover then sound off", and once everybody has sounded off, giving the go for firing?

Macaco
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Re: Folk Workshop feedback

Post by Macaco »

Ferrard Carson wrote:
  • Reaction to Contact
  • Breaking Contact
  • Working with CAS support
These three are the ones I think are most important. Well the first two are most and the third I just like.

Reaction to contact I think is our biggest failure as a group.

kalelovil
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Re: Folk Workshop feedback

Post by kalelovil »

Some Chernarus (including Chernarussian forest) set workshop training could also be useful.

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audiox
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Re: Folk Workshop feedback

Post by audiox »

Macaco wrote:
Ferrard Carson wrote:
  • Reaction to Contact
  • Breaking Contact
  • Working with CAS support
These three are the ones I think are most important. Well the first two are most and the third I just like.

Reaction to contact I think is our biggest failure as a group.

I am notoriously shoddy at this, and would much appreciate workshops dealing with it. Knowing how to manage a fireteam when contacts are made would make everything much more entertaining. As it is now i use the time-tested "where is it shoot at it take cover"-approach.

Also, i wonder if effective communication between elements could become more a part of the workshops.

Anvilfolk
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Re: Folk Workshop feedback

Post by Anvilfolk »

Agreed - my AAR on Chernolo 2 mentions that. Standardised message formats for different situations would definitely help communications flow, and less of "erm, north, er, yeah, north, er, about, er, maybe 3 guys? er" like I usualy do. No need to be strict about it, of course, but it would help.

Perhaps a spotter range, with randomly appearing random contacts in random directions, and the spotter would have to call them out. We could have several spotters in several positions, and the information would flow up a chain of command, with a CO and DC compiling information and checking its accuracy?

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