F3 Release A few Questions

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EBass
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F3 Release A few Questions

Post by EBass »

Hello all! First off, big thanks to those brave comrades who managed to convert our framework so quickly! I do have a few questions though.

A) This is something I've wondered about the framework in general, why do the troops start as "In formation"? In my experience I place the troops where I want them, if you're placing them in a constricted space, in formation just often makes them appear in wierd places. Its not a hard fix, but it is quite time consuming when you're having to reformate them all.

B) It seems a bit odd that the AAR doesn't have a backpack, but rather 2 100 round belts in his webbing. This means to get it to another player you need to drop it on the ground rather than have him take it right out his backpack. Just seems a little odd

Anyway, thanks again!

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fer
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Re: F3 Release A few Questions

Post by fer »

EBass wrote:why do the troops start as "In formation"? In my experience I place the troops where I want them, if you're placing them in a constricted space, in formation just often makes them appear in wierd places. Its not a hard fix, but it is quite time consuming when you're having to reformate them all.
This is down to the default way groups are created in the editor, rather than a design decision on our part. Would be interested to hear from more users as to whether this is a major issue or not.
EBass wrote:It seems a bit odd that the AAR doesn't have a backpack, but rather 2 100 round belts in his webbing. This means to get it to another player you need to drop it on the ground rather than have him take it right out his backpack.
The A3 loadouts are likely to change as the Alpha progresses, but the rationale for the v3-0-0 gear was that we wanted to avoid giving regular troops backpacks for reasons of stamina / load etc.

EBass
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Re: F3 Release A few Questions

Post by EBass »

I don't think the "in formation" thing is ever going to be a "major" issue, its not that hard to fix. It just adds about 3 minutes of busywork at the start of the mission. There are many examples where I want my fireteams not to be in their "default" in formation stance. Example, I want to put them in a small area such as a cliff where the in formation might put them over the edges, or if I want them to start manning positions behind sandbags.

With regard to backpacks, I haven't done any testing on it, but I don't know if the packs themselves actually add to encumberance? I think its just the items in contains? I think for ease of use, the AARs should have backpacks, cos its far easier to take spare mags out a backpack than have the aar drop them on the ground, then pixel hunt through the grass to pick them up, but thats just my opinion.

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IceRaiser
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Re: F3 Release A few Questions

Post by IceRaiser »

I'd personally like to see the default formation be a Compact Collumn, makes sure the Plt doesn't take up too much space and people loosing their Fireteam.
It seems a bit odd that the AAR doesn't have a backpack, but rather 2 100 round belts in his webbing.
IRL if you're the AssMMG(M240) you carry those to boxes over your shoulder/in your hand ;)
If you're carrying extra ammo for an AR or just a belt for the M240 you chuck it in a spare GP pocket on your vest/webbing.
So it's not odd at all that the AAR carries the spare boxes "on him".

I do however belive that the AAR should only carry one box on him, as the Backpack Parameter gives everyone a bunch of extra ammo.

Non-backpack is for quick Direct Action missions, Backpack is for longer missions/if you expect longer firefights.

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fer
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Re: F3 Release A few Questions

Post by fer »

IIR the only way to change the starting formation is to create a waypoint for the group - if so, that would be unlikely to become part of the component.

Backpacks are currently not included, but perhaps we can re-introduce the, along with a mission parameter for controlling their availability. Historically, that parameter was there to cope with the A2 units' limitations, but it could become a tool for controlling now much ammunition the comrades get.

Please keep the ideas and thoughts coming!

Black Mamba
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Re: F3 Release A few Questions

Post by Black Mamba »

What's the stance of the team, regarding the newly brought HC functionality?
Is it intended to deal with it from within the framework, or to let the mission-maker worry about it?
Could it be considered making a specific build/version?

EBass
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Re: F3 Release A few Questions

Post by EBass »

Heres why I think we need backpacks.

Article 1, both AAR mags dropped on the ground

Image

Now looking right at them from 3 yards away

Image

Abolutely invisible. Pretty much the only way you're gonna be able to transfer the mags is by having the AAR drop them at his feet and then remain stationary and yell, at my feet at my feet. If the AAR moves at all before the AR picks them up, good luck finding them ever again. Backpacks allow you to just get them right out the pack.

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wolfenswan
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Re: F3 Release A few Questions

Post by wolfenswan »

1. Regarding the formation thing:
If we change the groups from "In Formation" to "None" (which is a matter of one search & replace in the mission.sqm)
we can arrange them in a compact column (or whatever formation we desire) in the editor, though that's a bit fiddly and might just not be worth the effort compared to payoff.

I don't mind doing the former though.

2. Regarding backpacks:
Do backpacks affect endurance depending on how much they contain? If so, we could consider various backpack loadouts for final F3 with varying content. This could then be controlled by a parameter.

EBass
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Re: F3 Release A few Questions

Post by EBass »

I just think setting them all to none allows much easier positioning. I mean if you want them in formation, they pretty much start there in the framework.

Just did a test, EVERYTHING effects encumberance. Backpacks, webbing (empty or non empty) even sunglasses.

Wilson
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Re: F3 Release A few Questions

Post by Wilson »

Stamina is effected by the weight on the person. I certainly see where EBass is coming from though, hunting around in the grass for some ammo could/will result in us getting shot anyways.

As for formation/positioning, personally I like how it's all set up in F2/3. I generally start either side in an open space or out of the way and mount them in vehicles so formation doesn't mean much. I think it's more work for the developers of the framework, any specifics should be down to the mission maker in my view. Likelyhood is, any positioning you do anyways, won't be in line with the plan laid out in briefing so players will move out of the positions set.

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