Helicopter fixation (and why it's bad)

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fer
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Helicopter fixation (and why it's bad)

Post by fer »

Posting this in its own thread, but it's a response to something that happened in the [Sun] 11 May 2014 session (Tigershark never dies):
Halop wrote:We were driving in the kamaz to the AO, then we spotted a chopper. We all got out and fired at the heli to seemingly no effect.
Thanks for reminding about this, comrade Halop - it's something I wanted to post about (because I was spectating the whole mission).

Helicopter fixation is something we have a problem with, and I'd like to ask all comrades to keep it in mind for future missions. Whilst it's entirely possible to disable or destroy a helicopter using small-arms fire, the likelihood of doing so decreases greatly with the speed of the target. More often than not, fire from up to 2 squads of infantry against a fast-moving transport helicopter is ineffective. What's worse is that with everyone focused on the helicopter, two bad things tend to happen to the infantry:
  • They become completely static.
  • They lose most or all awareness of their surrounding terrain.
During last night's play-through of Friend in Need the first factor meant that your chances of getting to the convoy slipped from 'close' to 'none'. The second factor didn't disadvantage you, but during a play-through of comrade Wolfenswan's Goose Chase from FA's ArmA 2 era, I once watched an INDFOR squad get shredded by just a few BLUFOR infantry because the rebels had become fixated on an orbiting Blackhawk.

COs and SLs can really help here: when an enemy transport helo shows up, make a call as to whether or not you feel it's worth focusing your infantry on the helo - and also which elements of your force should do so, and which should remain focused on ensuring immediate security. Then issue orders accordingly. Alternatives might be to leave the helicopter to your heavier support assets alone, or even just tell everyone to ignore it and keep moving / hidden.

Please keep this in mind, and try to keep your Party-issued weapons safer for longer. Oh, and you might live longer too. Although, to be fair, the weapons cost the Party more.

:eng101:

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Bodge
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Re: Helicopter fixation (and why it's bad)

Post by Bodge »

I wasn't around for yesterday's session but I was the CO for Indfor on that goose chase run through. I have to say it was one of my worst experiences as a CO, I made a call for a 50 cal technical in our possession to open up on the chopper and the team to put fire on it. The order to cease fire was slow in being followed and a large proportion of the team continued to engage the chopper when it presented itself in the future. This mean the team wasn't moving, or responding to my directions despite the fact blufor was moving in and we were aware of this. The gunfire made communication difficult and with people's distraction meant I got little to no response from those below me in the communication structure. Needless to say we were hopelessly positioned when the smaller team of blufor turned up and I died fairly early on in an extremely pissed of state wanting to leave the session.

The fact I can still remember it clearly says something about how frustrating it was.

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wolfenswan
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Re: Helicopter fixation (and why it's bad)

Post by wolfenswan »

Chiming in as the FIA-Curator, I had a good view of what was happening from above. I saw CSAT's MRAP engaging the helicopter for the first time, causing it to divert. This was already fairly close to the AO and if CSAT would have kept on pushing they'd have had a significant advantage in time and force. Instead they opted for an encirclement, which allowed the NATO forces to land at the other hand of the AO.

But even the encirclement might have worked, if instead of engaging the now empty helicopter, they'd have used the MRAP and the forces on the hill to put pressure on the units around and moving towards the convoy.

Aqarius
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Re: Helicopter fixation (and why it's bad)

Post by Aqarius »

wolfenswan wrote:But even the encirclement might have worked, if instead of engaging the now empty helicopter, they'd have used the MRAP and the forces on the hill to put pressure on the units around and moving towards the convoy.
I thought that was happening?

CSAT CO/ASL on that last one. The terrain was flat as a pan, the plan was to have MRAP and the 1 FT Bravo take a base of fire and if possible push (distance was some 500m+, when there's cover you can't pin with smallarms at beyond 300-400m). the 2 FT Alpha was taking the north road because the woods up NE were the only piece of cover I could see in our neck of the woods.

I was riding shotgun with Alpha (since ASL) and had the chopper reported as coming from NNE or NE. Also, someone shouted about there being people inside, which doesn't make much sense in retrospect, but I took it at face value. If we'd've gotten a lucky shot that would've be it ( :jihad: ). The tipping argument for me, however, was "softskin truck+doorgunner=pain". I'm guessing the dumb part was not remounting the truck, but I didn't know if INDFOR advanced towards us or not, and since the helo wasn't down, it could just buzz us again. Later on, Bravo reported the chopper landing and disgorging NATO, and I told them to pin/move in. I was told the MRAP had only 90 rounds left, I gave the order to assault, and then focused on my guys.

That being said, What DID happen down south?
[/allegedly]

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Ferrard Carson
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Re: Helicopter fixation (and why it's bad)

Post by Ferrard Carson »

Aqarius wrote:That being said, What DID happen down south?
See AAR post: http://www.folkarps.com/forum/viewtopic ... 1318#p9105

TL;DR: BSL got kilt, confusion of B1 stepping up right as you were ordering glorious charge + B1 being distracted by repeated chopper runs = not moving as quickly as possible.

Also, running 500m takes a bit of time.

~ Ferrard
"Take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turnin' of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurtin' before she keels... makes her home."

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wolfenswan
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Re: Helicopter fixation (and why it's bad)

Post by wolfenswan »

In fairness, this was one of the spawns closest to NATO possible for the convoy. Most other locations allow a few minutes more for CSAT to get into position. The way they dealt with FIA was very good btw and they might have churned through them if it wasn't for NATO being that speedy.

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Re: Helicopter fixation (and why it's bad)

Post by Medic Eugene Roe »

Maybe we'll need to start putting AA teams in missions with enemy helos? At the same time though, those would still be greatly ineffective if the helicopters still have flares.

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Ferrard Carson
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Re: Helicopter fixation (and why it's bad)

Post by Ferrard Carson »

Medic Eugene Roe wrote:Maybe we'll need to start putting AA teams in missions with enemy helos? At the same time though, those would still be greatly ineffective if the helicopters still have flares.
Adding more assets to balance really isn't the best initial response to finding an imbalance in a mission unless it's a glaringly obvious one, and ArmA MANPADs are ridiculously OP in the first place. Besides, OpFor already has the Ifritini with which to fight back.

This is just an issue with the way we tend to react to stuff in-game. IRL, this would be drilled the fuck out of us.

~ Ferrard
"Take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turnin' of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurtin' before she keels... makes her home."

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fer
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Re: Helicopter fixation (and why it's bad)

Post by fer »

Ferrard Carson wrote:IRL, this would be drilled the fuck out of us.
Party officials will use their Makarovs to fire upon frontline troops that have become fixated on helicopters and neglected their primary duty (charging to Glory).

:commissar:

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SuperU
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Re: Helicopter fixation (and why it's bad)

Post by SuperU »

fer wrote:
Ferrard Carson wrote:IRL, this would be drilled the fuck out of us.
Party officials will use their Makarovs to fire upon frontline troops that have become fixated on helicopters and neglected their primary duty (charging to Glory).

:commissar:
But comrade, the Greek custom officials confiscated all our makarov and AK imports.

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