Express yourself!

Party-approved discussion of ArmA 3
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audiox
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Express yourself!

Post by audiox »

Hey. This post came to be after the session we had on tuesday the 2nd of December. I'd really like you to take a peek at it and give me your thoughts. (Also, your names and addresses so we can get rid of everybody we decide to brand a counter-revolutionary afterwards)

Session
Host

I've been away for a few weeks so it was nice to get to decide missions and herd you all around again! Tuesday sessions have been a somewhat rocky ride for the past six months, and i'd like to speculate a little as to why now. From a steady 25+ session, through a high of 36? sometime during summer, we've started bleeding people pretty drastically and now we average 10/15. This is, quite frankly, not what you want to see happen to the session you host regularly for half a year, but its something i wonder about the reasons for.

So i figured i'd speculate a little along with you. First and foremost i should say that anything that involves 2+ fireteams is dandy as far as i'm concerned, and smaller sessions makes it easier to get better at arma, as missions drag on much less than they do when we're 30+ (meaning a more relaxed atmosphere when it comes to more experimental stuff,and everybody gets more time "in the ring".)

missions
But still, big sessions are fun, and the slow dwindling during tuesdays have one immediate consequence, which sort of complicates matters.... Our missions aren't made for 10 people. FA missions have tended to focus on the 30+ spot when it comes to difficulty/slotting. Over the course of the past few months we have tried to make missions that are playable at the 15/20 spot, as we've been there a lot on tuesdays, and because we need something for off-peak sundays as well. That seemed to be going well, and fer/wolfs incredible effort to make new and entertaining stuff for us to play should really be commended by us all. Anyways. The point being that we were slightly behind the curve on those missions, they came as a response instead of an anticipation, meaning that a lot of time was spent with missions that are, quite frankly, overwhelming and with a decreasing fun value the fewer people attend.

So now we have nice missions for the 15/20 spot, but find ourselves again in the situation that we need to re-jigger these or make new ones that fit the 2 fireteam+ mentality. Which means we're once again behind the curve as far as missions that we have available on tuesdays is concerned. Making these is a surplus activity for all us mission makers. Sometimes its great fun to do, sometimes you just don't want to boot up arma. Especially not because somebody, somewhere on the internet has a craving for fresh missions. Personally, i make missions because i want us to have fun, and because i have things i want to play myself. But i also want to do it on my schedule, not based on a stressed "need" for more missions for our sessions. So yeah, missions will appear, but we're not a factory, so new missions happen when new missions happen.

stability
Lets face it, weird things happen during FA sessions with regularity. Just for this session we had the wrong kind of explosive charges and choppers that didn't land. We've seen a lot. Likewise in A2, but A2 had (to me) an inherent wonkiness in it that the slick presentation of A3s world kind of lacks. (the "i blame bohemia for making such a nice game"-defense! ;) Meaning that such events might be slightly more jarring than they used to be. I don't know. We usually just shoot the witnesses and hush it all up. So it would be nice if people commented on their view on mission stability in itself. How do people feel about missions being somewhat altered by assorted odds and ends that was overlooked (either negligently, or just because, honestly, some stuff just won't be noticed until we're in the thick of it.)

group coherence
You're a good gang. If i am to be honest i'm somewhat puzzled by the reticence when it comes to FTL/SL/CO slots, but be as that may, people should attend our sessions to do what they think is a good time, and if that is AAR every time then good for you. We hope you understand that you'll be occasionally force slotted regardless, but that is just unavoidable if we want to make it past the slotting screen sometimes. (Though i really should say that there are times when i also think "man, the command slots went too fast, i wanted one too", so that is good.)

But yeah. FA is a very open community. Drop in, drop out. This means that the longer you've been here the longer you've had to re-tread old ground with new comrades. Also there is no real set way of handling either squads or fireteams. People talk differently, people command differently, people follow differently. This causes the experience to vary quite a bit. The lack of a common core way of handling things makes us much more approachable to people who want to drop in/drop out/tune in?/drop dead? but also mean that you never quite know what you're gonna get. We want to be a place where people can try, and have the opportunity to fuck up liberally, but if you run into three bad squad experiences with limited/no comms or structure in a row you're gonna be a bit tired. That is unfortunate, and the workshop mechanism we've had for basic fireteam coherence in the past has been dormant for a bit too long imho (but then again, its on me to be there and host it then, isn't it?! :roll: )


arma 3 mechanics
If nothing else we can agree that A2 was more game-ey than A3. A3 has added a lot of complexity that A2 lacked. That makes for a more engrossing game when you're in the thick of it and everything works, but it also makes for a much less fun game when things go wonky because [see above]. So the distance between the highs and lows become greater. Also, i don't know if the increased complexity limits the game's appeal for parts of what used to be FA's constituency. At the same time, since A3 is now more complex as a base, the jump across to mods becomes (perhaps?) less daunting, and very many of us have fond memories of Cherna and Taki. So if somebody says "hey, a mod or two and you'll be back in Cherna with pretty forests and "real" guns i can see why that can be very appealing. Also, there are A3 Mod communities that also have a rather lenient atmosphere related to attendance and such (like the sexy, sexy people of 1tac *cough* *cough*, and playing more than once or twice a week is a stretch for most of us.

Personally I really like the new A3 mechanics. Fatigue is cool, sway is dandy, stuff feels natural and smooth. But occasionally i think it would be cool to do the ice skating of A2 with 30+ people again and not have to worry about stances, fatigue bars and my rocket launcher swaying all over the place. So there is that. (Not enough to make me want to reinstall A2 again though, but hey, some people do.)




FA as a community has been playing with A3 for approximately a year now. Its a year that has had its ups and downs. Many great missions, some amusing fuckups, and some times when everything just plain old didn't work and everything felt sour. Thems the breaks. Above are some of my thoughts about the matter, but it'd really help to have yours. Both regarding what you enjoy with FA's sessions, but also an honest critical appraisal of what you experience that you feel could/should be improved. (And then a forty page outline in triplicate as to ways of doing said improvements. We'll also need bribes.)


So basically what i'd like you all to comment about is as follows :

What have been the ups and downs when it comes to your experiences with FA during the past ca six months?
How do you feel the missions are. Do they hit the sweet spot often enough? What do we need more/less of in our missions?
What do you think would make you attend more often?
What do you think would help to keep other people more interested in our events?
What should happen more/less during FA sessions.
Do you have any annoyances during your average FA session? Do you think said annoyances could be mitigated somehow?


FA's reason for existing is to provide a nice environment for people of all skill levels to enjoy an evening of tactical infantry oriented milsim-light fun. That will continue to be our focus. We'd really like to refine the experience with input from you all, but don't expect us to deviate from the aforementioned raison d'etre. We think the experience can get better, but it would really help to get your viewpoints as well. You've already given us plenty of thanks for hosting, so feel free to not coat your potential misgivings with unnecessary amounts of respect. We'd rather get some unfiltered viewpoints than watered down ones. (Besides, the more honesty, the easier to get the purges going afterwards!)

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audiox
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Re: Express yourself!

Post by audiox »

Basically. What i'm trying to say is :




;)

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head
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Location: Sweeeden

Re: Express yourself!

Post by head »

I would perhaps want to see a break from our normal mission sturcture for more "sandboxy" missions, with a base a few objectives and one could sorta roll around that how ever one pleases.

(Perhaps even with some kind of non too gamey revive)

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Kefirz
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Re: Express yourself!

Post by Kefirz »

My excuse is that I can only commit on Fri,Sat,Sun, because I am not at home and this will go on until July, when I will be more or less home for 2 months. But I have asked the same question also, when I noticed the sharp decline, and there were also people with the same situation like me and I suspect that it is hard for people outside Europe to commit on that time.

As for the missions, I think everyone will agree with me when I will say that all the mission makers are more appreciated than they think and we understand that it is not your full-time job.

But let me add some thoughts, which could work to adapt to the fluctuating player count, that don't sound too crazy for me:

-Have missions with that dynamic enemy spawner, that was in some A2 missions.
3 AI vs 1 human player should be a good ratio.

-As a test, integrate more Zeus in the missions, ideally he wouldn't even have to spawn units because there is plenty of them and he would operate with only those units, no town/airfield/factory clearance would be the same.

-Have a Zeus event, for.. let's say 40 mins? With respawn, yes there... I said it.
The mission would run as usual with Zeus and his random (or pre-planned) objectives. And the respawn could work as ''reinforcements'', for example, you pre-make a leisure camp/detention center where you will have the respawns and wait for a certain number of players to spawn there, let's say 4, and when they are there you just use an AI or a human controlled chopper to get them where they are needed.


About the missions itself:

-Let's face it, 5.56 is shit, I hate it, you hate it, everyone hates it.
At least in PvE scenarios can we use the 6.5? Or even the odd mission with 7.62 (Will elaborate)

-A bigger variety of guns/scopes/attachments, sometimes these missions just feel the same, just the landscape changes a bit. Remember those fond times we operated with Lee Enfields/FN FAL's/AK's/M4's/Bizons/Shotguns/FN SCAR's/M14's? The huge variety of weapons was great, but now we only have two 6.5mm's and two 5.56ers and that's about it. Why can't we have a mission with the M18 (or some other weapon)? Sure it packs a punch, but the enemies here have armor, instead of just rags and surplus soviet steel helmets.
PvP with 5.56 is great, because it adds a bit more survivability and makes the firefights more intense and longer, but PvE.... forget it.
Even if you still aren't convinced, remember the times we had FN FAL's in our hands and we were told were the baddies are? I remember and those were some damn good times, because we actually could take down the enemies, not like now, when we have to shoot them 2-3 times to see that it was only a scratch for them while it seems that once you get shot you just die.

-As the times change, the doctrine has to change also. Almost always we need a transport, sure a truck is fine. But individual fireteam transport would be even better. And don't say that the pickup is fine, it is not, period.
Again, coming from experience, when a whole squad on the 1st mission dies because someone crashed in a rock and on the 2nd mission 2 fireteams die because 2 pickups crashed in each other, it is not fun. I've had this happen, it is not fun at all, and if someone new to FA experiences this, he probably won't want to experience it again.
So we need to stop being infantry and start being mechanized or at the very least motorized. More Ifrits/Hunters/Striders for the fireteams + other vehicles for variety.

-As you might notice, the key word is variety, because let's face it, the same things over and over again get boring. And so what if the weapon is really good, or if you can cover behind a Hunter, it just makes the game different... fresh, something new. Why can't we have the satisfaction that, for once, things are going our way?

-Dying is not fun, seriously. I know that we all joke about dying and how it is all we do, but sometimes it feels like someone took it seriously and a mission is a good one, only if everyone dies, not reaching the 1st objective.
So if you have choppers in the mission, make sure that there are AA slots and it is mentioned to bring AA, if you have armor, give us some proper AT not just one RPG against a BMP/whatever the other IFV's are called.
Also, troop numbers. Yes sometimes we can actually kill somebody, but remember that nobody ever will be able to clear a 30+ AI town with 30 players, it just won't happen.
What makes a mission great is that it is challenging, but not a suicide mission, and when you complete the mission with your team intact and you all go wheeew, that was a doozy


As to answer some of the questions:
-The game mechanics are great, we just need to take the right approach with them.
-Yes, I had my fair share of annoyances, but I cannot say anything about any good stuff that I remember. I guess the times I feel good is when my team makes it or we actually win a mission.
-The Year in Review, were great tools of recruitment through social media. I'm also not a reddit-er, but from today, I have an account there and I will start posting things about FA. Looking for some private/public videos, that I can cut up in 60sec long snippets for people to have a look at.
''I am not going against tanks'' - Tryteyker, MAT gunner.
''Downboated so much, it's an u-boat now.'' - Boberro.
''Sorry, I meant hon hon hon baguette baguette Eiffel Tower'' - Mabbott

zitron
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 10:18 pm

Re: Express yourself!

Post by zitron »

There should be a rule that if you are hosting you shouldn't be allowed to choose the missions you made yourself. This will force the hosts to choose a wider selection of missions.

lietuvis10
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:14 pm

Re: Express yourself!

Post by lietuvis10 »

1) Lack of terrain variety.

Let's be fair here: the place me mostly use is the NW mountains,area around Krya Neri and Topolia and a bit of The Southern Peninsula. And also there is absolute lack of pure urban missions being played, it's most Topolia mountains and Oreokastro mountains. I am yet to play any mission that takes place around Athira,Feres,Selakano,Chalkea,Charkia itself(there was one time we played an adverserial in its storage yard), Sofia, Paros, and on.

2) Ability to win our missions.

Seriously. Even with 32 people, it seems that the commander has to always be prepared for an entire squad being wiped out and another squad losing half of it. Missions certainly don't feel winnable, not without huge losses at the very least. The only time I saw a mission victory that didn't consist of a fireteam + half a fireteam AT MOST surviving, was a mission in Abdera in which we had bloody IFVs. I have a video of it,so take a look:


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Bodge
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Re: Express yourself!

Post by Bodge »

I would like Sunday after party missions to be small co-ops possibly with revive to enable completion should people take hits. Maybe having multiple targets or possible locations to allow easy replay. If they prove practical they could get put into Tuesday rotation.

Medic Eugene Roe
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Re: Express yourself!

Post by Medic Eugene Roe »

Well, for the most part the reason for my absence on Tuesdays has always been school. As for Sundays... I can't really say much. If I had to guess, it's simply because I'm already playing another game at the time, and the ones I play are typically very addicting (curse you EU4!). In my experience, every time I did actually play with FA though, it was great fun. Even when it was buggy, we could all at least pass time making puns and talking about the glory of socialism.

As for critiques... hm. While, like you said, there is no designated, regular FA mission factory running on a specific schedule, it's like Kefirz said, some more diversity would greatly help. Also, perhaps some more... unorthodox planning... could really shake it up. And when people see said missions on YouTube or Reddit, they may feel a bit inclined to join up with the party. I for one, after seeing SuperU's video of pickups running around shooting with FFV on YouTube, am reminded of my duty to fight for our utopia. Basically, by being insanely creative both in terrain choice, and the actual objective, and then showing our beautiful fighting style to the world, we could probably regain some of our numbers, at least a little bit.

Really though, the main thing stopping me from coming along is whether or not I'm already doing things, sadly.

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Gaia
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Re: Express yourself!

Post by Gaia »

For me is been a combination of me having classes on Tuesday, and that the past few weeks of school have been brutal.

Add that on to the fact that I am feeling a bit burnt out on ArmA3 (mostly a lack of variety issue) and I find I just don't want to play anymore.

I love everyone here, but it's hard to keep doing missions when it feels like every mission is exactly the same...

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Rook
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Re: Express yourself!

Post by Rook »

How do you feel the missions are. Do they hit the sweet spot often enough? What do we need more/less of in our missions?
Each mission I feel needs something unique, and a story behind it. Context always helps. However there is one major issue with current missions:

ALTIS ALTIS ALTIS (stratis)

I am boooored of greek island that looks kind of similar throughout. I want one mission in an afghan desert, and the other in the woods of Chernarus, and another in cold Namalsk/Thirsk/etc. I know FOLK has a strictly vanilla experience, but it would massively boost numbers. For example, One Tactical have a plethora of different mods and they average 35-40 every session, even with a huge modpack necessary to play in their sessions. Capraia, Thirsk, Namalsk, Chernarus, Takistan, Zargabad etc etc all feature in their missions, and this variety keeps it interesting. Could we introduce an A3 V+ session perhaps?

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