[FEEDBACK] Slippery Eel

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wolfenswan
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[FEEDBACK] Slippery Eel

Post by wolfenswan »

I want to rewrite this mission to add a greater incentive for BLUFOR to go right into Zargabad (also because the UN heli AI is horrible).
This is my idea:

Instead of going straight to the Mosque, Azim has to collect documents from a random location. These documents would be placed in the trunk of a vehicle (as that's easiest to implement/locate) only Azim can access. I'm seeing two possible options here:
1) There's exactly one vehicle of the type in the city, Opfor knows of all possible locations. This would allow Azim to hide somewhere and have his minions scout for the vehicle.
2) There's a vehicle at every possible location but only one's the real deal: This would force Azim to go out and check every possible location, making it important for Opfor to distract Blufor.

Optionally, BLUFOR could know which location is the real deal from the start (tracking device?) and maybe even get a marker for Azim (like the medics have one) when he picks it up.

I'll remove the AK weapon crates inside the city to stress the difference between the Cell and the protection detail and also make MOUT more interesting (forcing OPFOR to get closer, act more like civvies etc.)

Any thoughts, suggestions?

Black Mamba
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Re: [FEEDBACK] Slippery Eel

Post by Black Mamba »

I was opfor on this one. One thing that really bugged us are the up armored humvees. I struggled for about ten minutes, taking two shots and changing my position again and again, to get legs out of the gunner turret, and that is really hard even with an AK (also it seems I had trouble killing legs in easy situations yesterday, but still. There's no way you can approach those without getting mowed down.). Maybe getting a few IEDs for the civies would balance that?
You can try and force OPFOR to act like civies, but I guess it would be interesting only if BLUFOR was not allowed to shoot at unarmed people. No matter how hard you try, at some point it's always relatively easy to tell a player from AI, and getting shot when you have no chance to defend yourself might not be so fun. Plus, knowing that the dude is a player but not being allowed to shoot him might actually just be great.
Regarding the tracking devices, my opinion is the less tracking stuff, the more fun, at least when you play in a relatively small environment. It forces BLUFOR to actually move throughout the city instead of just camping the locations or likely avenues of approach. But this is really a personnal POV, and I can't really predict how stuff would go down without those.

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wolfenswan
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Re: [FEEDBACK] Slippery Eel

Post by wolfenswan »

I think forcing the HMMWs inside the city reduces their power significantly (opfor can come from above etc.)

I might give the "civilians" UZIs or Skorpions. I might add a silent version of shuko's civ kill counter. Still I think "civilians" are fairly hard to distinguish from the real deal, as long as they keep their distance or stay hidden. (Which is the idea: as a disguised civilian you can cross the street in front of BLUFOR without getting shot. If BLUFOR gets close just go prone and hide your face. Worked for me.)

Also you're right about the tracking. BLUFOR know that Azim will go for the mosque when he has the documents anyway.

SpecialSoup
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Re: [FEEDBACK] Slippery Eel

Post by SpecialSoup »

Yesterday probably wasn't a great test for the mission due to almost everything going wrong.

As Opfor/Indy, we do have no real incentive to play as civilians however. Our Guerilla roles went as far as recon before their usefulness expired.

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Ferrard Carson
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Re: [FEEDBACK] Slippery Eel

Post by Ferrard Carson »

SpecialSoup wrote:Yesterday probably wasn't a great test for the mission due to almost everything going wrong.

As Opfor/Indy, we do have no real incentive to play as civilians however. Our Guerilla roles went as far as recon before their usefulness expired.
The problem likely being that BluFor never pushed into the city itself - the final objective was outside of MOUT, so why go into MOUT if it can be avoided? With BluFor outside of urban areas, OpFor's ability to masquerade as civvies becomes moot because BluFor would never get into pistol-range. So there are two options:
  • Arrange objectives such that BluFor has to enter the city to win.
  • Extend ambient civilian travel to outside the city proper.
Option #1 sounds a lot more manageable than #2.

~ Ferrard
"Take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turnin' of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurtin' before she keels... makes her home."

Macaco
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Re: [FEEDBACK] Slippery Eel

Post by Macaco »

As aziz's personal man slave we spent a lot of time running back and forth trying to find a place to go. If the UN helo had landed and stayed at the airfield we might have had a fight to get to it, but it didn't and we ended up running over to the villa, where the chopper also didn't land. I didn't see one goodfor the entire game. Their ability to stay out of the city and still accomplish the objectives really makes any of the disguise civilian stuff moot. I can't really think of a way of forcing the goodfor into the city while still keeping the goal outside in the villa or airfield. The documents idea wouldn't really work because the final objective is still the villa/airfield. Unless you make the mosque the final after getting the docs, but then the us would camp the entrances and not let anyone in.

Perhaps find a couple nice courtyards in the city and have the helos land there.

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wolfenswan
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Re: [FEEDBACK] Slippery Eel

Post by wolfenswan »

Unless you make the mosque the final after getting the docs, but then the us would camp the entrances and not let anyone in.
They could but there they can be attack from every side and they got only so many people.
Perhaps find a couple nice courtyards in the city and have the helos land there.
Helos are not an option because of the stupid fucking AI.

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Ferrard Carson
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Re: [FEEDBACK] Slippery Eel

Post by Ferrard Carson »

wolfenswan wrote:Helos are not an option because of the stupid fucking AI.
Aha, something I think I know the answer to! I'm quite certain that what happens is that the AI "notices" the enemies in the area (since IndFor are set as hostile to BluFor and friendly to OpFor) since BluFor is camping the f*** out of the choppers with Big Guns (tm)... and when it notices that, it freaks, ignores orders, and reacts to contact. Since they (seem) not to have ammo in their guns, they just fly away as fast as possible.

I've tried fixing the problem before by putting a civilian inside an empty Mi-8, only to realize that the civilian hostility is controlled by IndFor's hostility settings.

~ Ferrard

EDIT: Turns out, I'm dead wrong about that.
"Take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turnin' of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurtin' before she keels... makes her home."

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wolfenswan
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Re: [FEEDBACK] Slippery Eel

Post by wolfenswan »

They shouldn't notice any enemies because they are setCaptive and also have all sorts of scripting to keep them in place.

Also indfor =//= civilian; they are different sides

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Ferrard Carson
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Re: [FEEDBACK] Slippery Eel

Post by Ferrard Carson »

Huh... so you are correct about side affiliations. How on earth did I get the results that I got in testing then? O.o Maybe something to do with the faction...

Oh well. Back to the topic at hand: yeah, make Mosque / Villa the final, given that the path to the villa has decent cover due to the "new construction" (really slick townbuilding, btw). If you want, you could also add a third win-condition of Aziz making it back to Shabaz with the intel, such that BluFor needs to watch outside the town and respond quickly if that's where he goes, though that may make the mission too hard for BluFor.

~ Ferrard
"Take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turnin' of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurtin' before she keels... makes her home."

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