[Tue] 11 Mar 2014 (Who needs tanks anyway)

How we died (in the future)
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IceRaiser
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Location: IKEA

[Tue] 11 Mar 2014 (Who needs tanks anyway)

Post by IceRaiser »

Missions:
  • Burn
  • Caravel
  • Self Service
  • Redbears
  • Defend Syrta
Big thank you to all of the 27 comrades who disregarded my mild illness and confusion and attacked Stratis and Altis head-on!

For Burn Kefirz tried leading his small assault force in but gusts of bullets made sure one Ghosthawk was taken down and the other blown far off it's LZ.
In the end Kefirz's Party didn't even manage to get a football over the fence.
In Caravel Dogface's merry band of CSAT pushed hard against Antler's AAF and succeeded in eradicating those Greenback scums.
Self Service saw Dogface and Toppo, brothers seperated at birth, duke it out over the family inheritance. Due to some legal mumbo-jumbo, Dogface filed an injuction and won 2 shares.
For Redbears Tigershark tossed the notion of bringing armor out the window since he's thinking about the environment and stuff.
SuperÜ switched his Mohawk for a Hellcat halfway in, but still managed to get shot down :laugh: while Wrathz panicked, dropped his clothes and ran into the woods - never to be seen again.
After-Party Defend Syrta was kinda a success. Kefirz's CSAT units dropped the ball and IceRaiser's AAF got overrun by a slightly immortal Panther.

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Dogface
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Re: [Tue] 11 March 2014 (Who needs tanks anyway)

Post by Dogface »

Fun session! It started off a little low in numbers but more comrade reinforcements showed up to bolster our numbers.

Burn - Goose 1 pilot

Despite being deprived of my trusty joystick, I decided to have a go at piloting. We were to move into the hills around Airstation MIke-26 and assault it; the LZ was on a wooded slope to the south. I flew along the coast to the Girna area and turned in, trying to stay low, but ended up overshooting the LZ; it was hard to find a place to land on the slope, and we took some fire (luckily not missiles) from the base, resulting in a hard landing and a busted chopper. It started sliding down the hill, but luckily everyone managed to get out without injury due to their futuristic boots.

Once we slid to a graceful halt I got out and headed up to Zitron's chopper to man the minigun. This is where things got fun; Zitron expertly kept the chopper stable just below the crest of the hill and out of sight of the base, in a perfect position to observe the friendly targeting lasers and engage the approaching enemies. This meant I could provide some very effective fire support despite the somewhat long range -- much easier than trying to fire while circling!

As artillery pounded the base, the platoon was able to move up towards the southern fence, and we flew a couple of strafing runs overhead to clear out what we could. Unfortunately, we weren't able to make it inside in time to stop them from repairing the radar equipment, so the force of bombers got hit hard by AA during the subsequent invasion.

Due to our own low numbers and the large number of enemy flags on the map I was worried that the performance would be low, but actually it was damned silky-smooth. Ferrard's advanced missionmaking skills were also on display with a complex but understandable enemy disposition, an interesting development of action, and a great sense of story and context. As an observation I think the latter in particular -- the presentational, cinematic type aspect -- is one of the strengths that A3 has to offer over A2.

Caravel - CSAT (attacking) CO

Tasked to capture a coastal town from the north in this VS mission, I noticed a nice line of features on the northeast side providing overwatch over the town -- a rocky hill, a warehouse, and a smaller hill. Topping the first hill, we noticed enemies arrayed along the smaller hill and started engaging/suppressing them as we moved down, receiving some return fire in the process. With some efficient bounding and plenty of suppressing fire, we were able to advance on the smaller hill with little to no losses, on the way sending a rocket into an occupied house outward from the town. I think one of the things to take away from Ferrard's workshops is that more fire is best fire -- there's a reason we carry plenty of mags with us, and even if the fire element doesn't have solid visuals on targets, a high volume of bullets does serve to suppress, fix, and distract the enemy, especially if they're human.

Surprised by our good luck so far, I arranged the two squads in a position to start sweeping the town. At this point we received fire from the woods in the north/right flank, leading to my death -- however the survivors were able to hold it together and repel the smaller force quite handily, claiming the victory.


Self Service - CSAT (attacking) CO

In my second go at commanding the attack on this mission, this time with 3 FTs instead of 2, I had them approach form the north in a spread out formation, while I hooked south to provide a distraction from the town to the south of the complex. However, I was far too bold, setting my truck with the lights on just outside the base before our other forces were even halfway to their attack points. Me and my medic were immediately seen and engaged by an MG (west) and AT (north), barely managing to escape under heavy fire while our truck burned. We made it to a house, but I got mown down as we rounded the corner, shortly followed to valhalla by my loyal thane Tired Hippo.

We watched a sizeable detachment move out from the base to investigate, so if we'd timed it better this would have been an effective distraction -- however they soon determined the nature of our ruse and returned to their posts. Soon after the attacking elements started to engage, including Homer's HMG Ifrit providing some very noisy supporting fire. It got flanked and menaced by SuperU, then hit with AT and destroyed, but in retaliation we destroyed the water-tower that enemy CO Toppometer was sat on.

Following a brisk exchange of fire, the defenders were left at a numerical disadvantage; whittled down to an elite hardcore of I think SuperU, Tigershark, Iceraiser and someone else. They conducted some ninja raids but were not able to turn the tide, with Iceraiser being the last to get wiped out while reloading.


Redbears - B1 FTL

Under Aquarius, we were to assist in the capture of a small town in the mountainous northwest of Altis. Taking the second run of the SuperU air-taxi, we moved around to the south of Alpha who were hitting the west of the town. Advancing amidst a tense atmosphere (and rather choppy framerate), we spotted an enemy IFV patrolling the road and moved to engage it.

B2's AT fired first, just missing it. B1 moved forward to the road to close in to the target, and despite this being INinja32s first time using A3 AT, his hit was enough to destroy it after a short delay. After clearing the roadblock of enemies, we advanced north, uphill to the town. However, we took contact as soon as we got there, from inside and outside the buildings, and with the crowd of friendlies nearby I failed to IFF an enemy fireteam which took me out.

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boberro
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Re: [Tue] 11 March 2014 (Who needs tanks anyway)

Post by boberro »

I was minding my own business when I got a hunch that someone somewhere needs my lack of leadership, so I joined for one last mission.

Redbears, B2 FTL
Sometimes it's not possible to put everyone in transport, and helo needs to make two turns. While it sounds reasonable, there's this little seed of incompetence in every player that makes things difficult. I was really surprised then none of the players that decided to run directly under the landing helicopter was squashed.

I mentioned my lack of leadership skills before. I have a feeling that everyone in FA already knows how terrible FLT I am and start acting independently as soon as missions start. Guys, while in most cases it's healthy reaction called self-preservation, please at least try to make it looks like there's some chain of command. If you report contact on TS to the SL, and not to your FTL, don't be surprised your FTL has no idea that it's his team that keeps an eye on the enemy. And if you are about to shot, say so before, not at the moment you pressed a button.

When alpha was already dying in town, and bravo was still on the way to aid them, B2 we hiking. For some it was attack at the road block, for some (like me) it was just a stroll. nonetheless we cleared the way to the town and got (with some smaller engagements) to the edge of the town, where we happened to hide in the same bush as enemy team of at least 3 medics...

Defend Syrta
I dropped during the third wave, but still, this mission would be really nice if only I could use the bipod or support my gun on something.
Delete this marker please. You're scaring the tank.
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thekev506
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Re: [Tue] 11 March 2014 (Who needs tanks anyway)

Post by thekev506 »

Would really appreciate some feedback on Caravel - it's my first ever mission and have some time this weekend for tweaking it ;)
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WrathzRevenge
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Re: [Tue] 11 March 2014 (Who needs tanks anyway)

Post by WrathzRevenge »

Said many times i'm not a fan of the PVP side of ARMA. Never have been nor will I probably ever be. But the two I took part in were very fun. kev, good job for your first mission. Though as someone who has never made one, can't really give you anything constructive.

The Invisible SPAAG by Issus
"Homer: Wrathz, I order you to find that vehicle, and destroy it with the telekinetic abilities gifted to you by your extreme rage!
Wrathz: I'll try, but we're getting fuckin' destroyed out here!"

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Denel
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Re: [Tue] 11 March 2014 (Who needs tanks anyway)

Post by Denel »

A frustrating session for me personally due to dying pretty rapidly in the PVP games and getting tked in Redbears. No-one's to blame for that other than myself (and maybe Homercleese... :lol:). But anyway...

I have two general observations to throw out there for whatever they are worth. These are informed not only by this session but all the A3 sessions I've attended so far:

1. Static defence; for COs conducting static defence when outnumbered by the attacking force, do not split your force so that elements (whatever size they are) are physically isolated and cannot provide mutual support to each other. Otherwise each element, once located by the enemy, will usually be fixed and destroyed by their superior numbers. I saw it on Caravela and I've also seen it happen the three times I've played Self Service (perhaps I should try attacking on that mission instead...).

2. AI in urban areas; For COs/FTLs to consider when moving through an urban area of any considerable size (ie more than a few buildings), assume that every single enterable building is occupied by the enemy until it has been physically cleared. I've seen a solitary window dwelling AI kill two or even three people when they have moved past a building (because it is not always clear where the fire is coming from (usually behind them)). I've also died to it myself at least twice.

I appreciate the above may seem a bit rich coming from someone who has never been a CO and rarely FTLs but eventually I will get round to it. And then you can berate me! ;)
For Reza our leaders, for Neocron the party, for the people...

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wolfenswan
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Re: [Tue] 11 March 2014 (Who needs tanks anyway)

Post by wolfenswan »

2. AI in urban areas; For COs/FTLs to consider when moving through an urban area of any considerable size (ie more than a few buildings), assume know that every single enterable building is occupied by the enemy
ftfy :dance:

In serious:

All of the above are very good points! It doesn't really matter whether they are coming from someone who has commanded before or not, but be aware that it might mark you as "competent" in the eyes of the party, resulting in the voluntary assignment of leadership roles should the need arise :D

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Tigershark
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Re: [Tue] 11 March 2014 (Who needs tanks anyway)

Post by Tigershark »

Denel wrote:For COs/FTLs to consider when moving through an urban area of any considerable size (ie more than a few buildings), assumeknow that every single enterable building is occupied by the enemy until it has been physically cleared.
CO's give broad objectives....SLs and organise their squad appropriately, FTLs lead their troops safely to the objective.

I guess this is referring to the last mission with insane number of troops in the objective town? Not sure this would have really helped us then but it is something to note.
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Denel
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Re: [Tue] 11 March 2014 (Who needs tanks anyway)

Post by Denel »

Tigershark wrote:
CO's give broad objectives....SLs and organise their squad appropriately, FTLs lead their troops safely to the objective.

I guess this is referring to the last mission with insane number of troops in the objective town? Not sure this would have really helped us then but it is something to note.
You are of course correct I should have said SLs, though the time taken to clear an enemy occupied urban area is something COs should factor into their planning.

Regarding the last mission perhaps Alpha should have waited on the edge of the town until Bravo had caught up (if thats not what happened then ignore this), then both squads could have cleared in a (loosely) coordinated fashion.

Stated with the benefit of hindsight etc etc, but perhaps something COs could consider for future missions.
For Reza our leaders, for Neocron the party, for the people...

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Tigershark
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Re: [Tue] 11 March 2014 (Who needs tanks anyway)

Post by Tigershark »

Denel,
These are fair points.....but there is a broader issue here that everyone should consider when either taking a CO role or a role that takes commands from the CO.

At FolkArps, the role of CO is not just one of the guy who commands troops and tries to win the mission. You also have an intrinsic responsibility to keep the game being played "fun". Indulge me for a second whilst I elaborate.

We have an approx. 3 hour window in which to complete missions which the hosts pick to cater for the tastes of all our community members. This means a mix of adv vs coop, different terrains, missions with combined arms (tanks, helos) as well as pure infantry missions. Missions played as blufor...missions as ill equipped rebels having to use the benefit of guerilla tactics....etc..I think you get the point. The very fact that some have mentioned they will never truly appreciate Arma adversarial missions is testimony to the need to provide a wide selection of missions during a session to keep everyone in the community engaged.

For any one of the missions I have commanded, the proper approach would have been to recon, recon and then do some more recon. Have people slowly move to staging areas and then attack. Unfortunately, this is time consuming. Incredibly time consuming. Which would mean we could only get through a fraction of the missions planned for the session.

In addition, there is the human element. For many players who look forward to the 3 hour window twice a week in which to play, they want to see action. Yes...there are those amongst us who would like to strive for more realism but FolkArps is about the compromise between a hard-core mission experience and a low barrier to entry experience based primarily around fun with a higher degree of discipline and organization than say, a purely public server playing Domination.

We believe our members are exactly the people who want this balance of tactical but casual game play. People want to shoot stuff. Anytime as a CO you command people to wait, hold position or not fire at enemies that are visible, you can feel the tension of a whole squad muttering under their breath, "Why the fuck can't we just go over there and shoot them...". It's difficult to understand what I mean until you have experienced so I encourage people to experience first before passing any judgement. Asking people to wait is always a tricky proposition and the amount of time you ask them to wait can make or break their enjoyment of the mission (which sometimes has the unfortunate effect of unfairly reflecting poorly on the mission and mission maker).

I mention these points not as an excuse but to create an appreciation for some of the finer points of COing that people may not realize. It's not just about moving pieces around the board. You are also, whether you realize it or not, directly responsible for the enjoyment of all the players under your command. Keep people trekking across the map, waiting and not providing them anything to shoot at and they will complain about the mission. Go in too fast and hard and equally people will complain as they sit in spectator and watch others have fun (you also have to take into consideration those who have died and potentially stuck in spectator mode for the duration of a long ass mission).

So whilst you make some excellent points, consider that the CO role is more than just organizing the perfect attack (which rarely happens due to a variety of reasons including sometimes the lack of our own discipline to perhaps not engage targets more than 400m away).

In the mission you refer to....I perhaps could have kept Alpha back. But Bravo was being engaged and taking casualties (something you probably couldn't hear as it was across the command channel) and my thinking was that Alpha could relieve the pressure. If Alpha charged in without checking buildings and what not, well that's something we could all work on. In addition, if you were in spectator mode after dying and turned on "tags" you could see the sea of Opfor units we were opposing. When the mission maker Head saw it even he double checked his work and realized an error in his mission created more opposition in the town than he has intended. I'm not sure any tactics would have helped us survive that short of artillery or CAS. These however, do seem like excuses. We were doing very well up until the assault on the town and I did make some mistakes assaulting the town as I hadn't realized we would attack from downhill. To be fair though, the amount of opposition far exceeded our capabilities.

So in summary:
1. Yes...we should pay more attention to clearing buildings.
2. CO's should consider this in their planning but be aware that the job of a CO also extends to keep the pace of the mission advancing at a reasonable pace for the enjoyment of everyone and the timing of the entire session.
3. Mission pace is always a balance between planning, waiting and shooting. CO's will not always get this right but they should aspire to do so.
4. Your point about defending forces spreading out may be valid....but people should feel free to experiment. The best demonstration of your proposed tactic is take CO and put into practice.
5. I by no means want to discourage anyone from COing. I welcome fresh approaches to the same scenarios we play. I look forward to being under your command as CO one day! :clint:
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